Talk:Thunderclap
I've noticed that recently, a lot of the pages have progressions leading up to 20. I know 19 is reachable by a few means (Awaken the Blood + Focus or Glyph + Focus), but how does one reach 20? Furthermore, it's been showing up in places that don't have a +2 modifying spell (Healing Prayers, for example). Is this necessary, or should progressions be edited to reflect the actual maximum? --Rustjive 03:52, 18 November 2005 (UTC) :A wiseman once told us that if you wield two +1 items at the same time (wand + focus item) then there is a 4% chance they will kick in at the same time and he claimed that if they do, you will get +2 in the desired attribute. So, coupled with Elemental power, Superior Rune and +1 headgear, you get to attribute level 20 on steriods. :) ::Old news, but there are no +1 wands... --Angelo :As you noted this is only possible for 4 Ele attributes and a couple of Necro ones. For the other ones, they should be up to the most possible under the law. Though be mindful that there is a template used on some pages that may force the table to be up to 20. Feel free to remove the template as it never really caught on. --Karlos 08:05, 18 November 2005 (UTC) ::I dunno if you meant my templates or the one that came before it, but the older one doesn't exist anymore and mine goes to 19. --Fyren 08:19, 18 November 2005 (UTC) :::We took out Progression and Progression2? I thought I saw someone using them somewhere. Ignore me. :) --Karlos 08:43, 18 November 2005 (UTC) ::::I appropriated those names. --Fyren 09:18, 18 November 2005 (UTC) :::::you can get to lvl 20 bye yousing a statue(whit the right blessing it it gives +1 at air magic)—''The preceding unsigned comment was added by'' Rayquaza (talk • ) 16:42, 14 August 2006 (CDT). ::::you are almost a full year late replying to that comment. --Honorable Sarah image:Honorable_Icon.gif 16:48, 14 August 2006 (CDT) Does anyone know why sometimes I just lose the -5, but some other times I lose -5 -5? I'm thinking it might have to do with how close I'm standing. And yes, it is just -5 if you're knocking down multiple foes. air --Tinarto 18:55, 5 May 2006 (CDT) :Yeah, I know why. It's because you're either using Conjure Lightning or Lightning Touch with it. Conjure Lightning does additional lightning damage that's counted separately from the lightning damage from your wand attack, and Lightning Touch will do initial lightning damage and extra lightning damage if there's a water hex on the target. Thunderclap will be triggered on each source of lightning damage. --Tjoneil 22:14, 17 May 2006 (CDT) ---- Is there any real use of this skill for a PvP or PvE ele? As you cant take Ether Prodigy to gain energy with it, i fail to see a valid reason to use this. Might as well just made it a monster only skill (for mursaat). : Robin of Glory 20px 06:10, 29 July 2006 (CDT) : A friend of mine used to use this to keep the opposing team down for ~30 seconds (as per Talk:Knockdown). Using Glyph of Elemental Power to raise his Air Magic to 18, he'd be spending 5 energy per knockdown, which occurs every 2 seconds. By keeping the target and those adjacent to them on the floor, the Warriors were able to wreak havoc without much resistance. 220.233.103.77 06:29, 29 July 2006 (CDT) ::Or for spikes. With a lighting wand, you can keep the infuser down for as long as you want, and just stop wanding after the spike's done. Tycn 22:47, 28 December 2006 (CST) :::Consider using brambles. --Thefez Conjure Still need a lightning weapon, it doesn't convert your dmg type — Skuld 12:34, 16 September 2006 (CDT) :Looks like Karlos was overzealous.. I reverted his edit. Ifer 16:41, 16 September 2006 (CDT) ::Went over them again. A shortbow fires faster than a hornbow and won't overlap hits/knockdowns. --Fyren 17:02, 16 September 2006 (CDT) :::Sorry about the conjure lightning thing. Spelled out how the energy loss takes place. Reinstated the Glyph of elemental power comment as it's relevant here. --Karlos 20:31, 16 September 2006 (CDT) ::::You can use it on any elemental spell but we decided long ago not to say that. --Fyren 20:36, 16 September 2006 (CDT) reality this skill is useless If you say so....The Hobo 05:53, 30 January 2007 (CST) :I use this skill on a build in RA just for the sole purpose of annoying someone and making them frustrated. thunderclap, shocking shortbow, brambles and you can end up being really annoying. throw in a pet just to further annoy them, maybe to add daze. Its really funny to get 2-3 warriors attacking your monk, keep them all down on the ground for ~1 min if u reapply. if you keep them on the ground for a minute at the expense of 100 energy, thats fine in my book.--71.64.115.233 23:49, 10 March 2007 (CST) ::Just to point out, we DO have a favored build using Thunderclap. Thunderbow [[User:Defiant Elements|'Defiant Elements']] (talk ~ ) :::I have to agree though it's quite useless. The knockdown would be good in a biuld focused around this skill with things like Brambles, but you would run out of energy really fast (bad for an ele) and it would end, and an ele without energy is useless. In fact, most things except Warriors are useless without energy. [[User:Dervish Mazta|'Dervish' Mazta]] (''Talk'') Bad note? Its the only way to go, might as well list it — Skuld 15:41, 24 March 2007 (CDT) :The attribute progression table is there for a reason. If players can't do simple math or are too noobish to know how to reach a rank 16, then too bad for them. (T/ ) 15:47, 24 March 2007 (CDT) ::We're supposed to help people, not maintain an air of superiority — Skuld 15:49, 24 March 2007 (CDT) :::If you want to go and place notes about what types of headgear and superior runes to use on all the skillpages, be my guest Skuld. (T/ ) 15:53, 24 March 2007 (CDT) ::::For other skills it is irrelevant, I think that it is of use for Thunderclap, and thunderclap alone. — Skuld 15:55, 24 March 2007 (CDT) :::::Don't forget Spinal Shivers. But I maintain it is self-explanatory and unnecessary. Like saying that it's better to use a sword or daggers for IW and not a Hammer. (T/ ) 15:58, 24 March 2007 (CDT) LAME skill Do you guys think this skill qualifies as being lame? --Robinhood 23:34, 17 July 2007 (CDT) :I don't think so. It at least has a use in gimmick builds (Shocking Shortbow, Brambles, etc.). Most LAME skills are either extremely useless or obsolete. --Heelz 00:12, 18 July 2007 (CDT) ::Because you practically have to build an entire team around Thunderclap to actually make it work, it is pretty close to being LAME. But, since there actually are a few uses for it (unlike say...Balthazar's Pendulum or Supportive Spirit), it is not quite there yet. Borderline I'd say. This skill isn't obsolete (nothing quite like it) and it's not extremely useless because if you do manage to pull off a good build around it, it can be devastating. But "can" and "is" are very different things...Skill has a lot of potential but requires way too much setup and planning to really ever be viable for common, PUG-level stuff. (T/ ) 00:39, 18 July 2007 (CDT) This is my favourite ele skill, not suprised you put a lame tag on it but just wanna say it can really help in fort aspenwood for example, it works in pve too even if there are a few monsters worth throwing it on. This is not completly useless. --Cursed Angel 13:18, 15 September 2007 (CDT) -- [[User:Taki_Fujiko|''Taki Fujiko]] 19:32, 27 February 2008 (UTC) I Like It i like this skill, its beautiful when combined with a channeling rit:D try it and reevaluate the lame tag again :D--Schlumpy 01:02, 7 October 2007 (UTC) :How exactly would a Rit be able to handle the energy loss? --Kale Ironfist 01:06, 7 October 2007 (UTC) ::well, there are energy mods, radiant insigs, runes of attunement, hmmm basically just figure out a way to get your energy up....ALSO make BFF with Mighty Vorizun cus he gives mucho energy... mines at 83 energy w/o sup runes on,so thats basically the way to keep your energy managable.... PLUS they only lose energy if you knock the foe down, it doesnt subtract energy if the foe is already knocked down... they are knocked down for 2 secs... long enough to use spirit rift, lightning javelin(to knock them down and keep them in range of spirit rift)and ancestors rage(or one of those quick casting high dmg channeling spells) all for dmg of EXTREME while keeping them knocked down.... but i dunno , call me crazy :D plz do...(not trying to come off mean either... just proving a point :)) --Schlumpy 20:26, 7 October 2007 (UTC) :::So basically, you're giving up energy regeneration, health/armor bonuses and attribute points to use this elite? I don't think the trade-off is worth it, especially when it is ONE hex that can easily be removed. Besides, you DO lose energy if they are hit by lightning damage, regardless if it would knock them down or not. --Kale Ironfist 22:52, 7 October 2007 (UTC) :::: Actually yes i would give up energy regen... i only use my build in 1v1(im in 1v1 oriented guild)... but whatever you were correct about knock down energy loss but i never noticed it before... i seem to never really get low on energy(beings that im only killing 1 or 2 ppl due to the fact that its my 1v1 build ) so yes this skill isnt lame but it does have its flaws... plus about the health and armor thing, mighty vorizun gives u extra armor and you dont have to have that high of energy so survivor insigs or rines of vitae would suffice...and the attributes? i only use channeling and air magic beings that spawning power does nothing for channeling rits... but i dunnno, whatever floats your boat :D(PS not trying to be an asshole or n e thing) --Schlumpy 00:59, 8 October 2007 (UTC) :::::Wanderlust, Earthbind. 'Nuff said. (T/ ) 01:04, 8 October 2007 (UTC) ::::::Agreed--Schlumpy 23:55, 8 October 2007 (UTC) Conjure Note Removed Since Conjures as of the 10-12 update deliever damage in one packet along with the attack, I've removed the note about conjure lightening triggering this twice with no benefit. umm i wonder if any of u guys heard of something called a bip?.... well this skill is not completely useless in the fact that it works in alot of high end team areas,particuarly the deep,stygian veil,doa,urgoz,even some eotn dungeons. until the nerf,i used to be able to trio-six man the deep,including hm. grab a thunder clap ele,a monk,an sf nuker,a bip,a tank,and either another ele or monk.let the tank bunch the mob up,pop on thunder clap/spam lighting strike,shock arrows,etc while the bip keeps ya fresh with energy,and the other ele just nukes away,since the enemies are kd'd,theres little strain on the tank and monk once the groups are bunched.i wouldnt use this skill in a solo build at all,or in pvp as much,but its definetly very useful and not lame. and for those of u who still think a bip/br wont counter the enegry loss,theres always secondary mesmer enegry stealing. No one said it's completely useless (only the OP thinks it's LAME), but it takes some special setup, and that makes it harder to use than most elites. BiP? Yeah, of course that will work. But if you need to use another elite just to get Thunderclap to work, that's a problem isn't it...Thunderclap is one of those special Elites which has a very narrow usefulness, but when it's working it is very nice. It is just not liked much because it's inflexible. (T/ ) 18:28, 28 October 2007 (UTC) Used with Assassin? :What if you used Black Lotus Strike then Falling Lotus Strike? Might it be worth it? -Hesus ::I don't think an A/E or E/A with daggers (especically A/E because of low energy pool) should wield Thunderclap, since daggers have double strike and it have a real high attack speed, they can drain your energy away in no time.-- CorCaspian14:40, 14 November 2007 (UTC) :::If it is at r12 air magic, it's 9 energy. r13 Critical strikes gives you 3 energy per critical hit, combine it with critical eye, and you bring it down to 5, however thats still a 5 energy loss and will quickly drain energy.Gorbachev116 15:51, 16 July 2008 (UTC) Effective E-Degen Rate Assuming 18 Air Magic (Glyph +3 +1), 5 energy every two seconds minus the natural 1.3 e-regen is 5/2 - 1.3 = 1.2 energy per second; So Tclap with a shortbow causes approximately -4 pips of energy generation; i.e., over the course of 22 seconds you lose about 26 energy. I wouldn't call -5 -10 -26 = -41 energy from maximum energy on a Ele "little no or energy". The comment is a bit misleading and may persuade people (as it did for me) to not try the skill because they are led to believe that they'll only get 20 seconds out of it before they become useless. Using only conjure air, brambles, and signets (PTS, Antidote), in addition to the above can last upwards of a minute of high-degen, 22+ additional DPS, AoE KD. Another thing... :I think one thing that could be done to improve this skill (apart from decreasing the energy loss) would be to alter the fact that it ends if you don't have the energy. Though that may lead to some major exploitation...Konradishes 11:23, 2 March 2008 (UTC) ::You mean end once it needs say 5 energy but you only have 3? Are you saying it should be buffed or nerfed, it defiantly should not be buffed, overpowered as hell if used right.-- 11:27, 2 March 2008 (UTC) :::Its not OP now, however you use it, but a buff could lead to some pretty insane stuff. Lord of all tyria 11:41, 2 March 2008 (UTC) ::::Disagree, I've seen some completely cow crap uses of it.-- 11:43, 2 March 2008 (UTC) To clarify. What I meant was that I think it shouldn't end once your energy hits zero, similar to the way Holy Wrath operates. Although it is a maintained enchantment, it won't end even if your energy hits zero.Konradishes 07:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC) :That would be nice. It would guarantee a kill on any target that could be knocked down, unless the hex was removed. 07:09, 3 March 2008 (UTC) I'd like to note that this hex has a stacking effect, meaning that if cast on the same target by multiple users, the energy cost will be split between them. Narhiril 23:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC) Pwnage? Got 3 of my group KDed for about 14 seconds in RA.--Relyk 02:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC) :It is pretty good when it is coordinated, but if your group was constantly knocked down, its your groups fault. Move away.Gorbachev116 02:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC) ::Kinda hard to move away if you're knocked down, unless you have Balanced Stance --Gimmethegepgun 02:54, 14 April 2008 (UTC) :::Its only adjacent range, and this assumes they hit you right when you get up. If you were in adjacent range to begin with you are in trouble.Gorbachev116 14:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC) ::::Shocking Shortbow+TC is a knocklock without a chance to walk. Its nasty. --- -- (s)talkpage 14:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC) :::::Yea. I'm just saying, if you are being KD'd, your friends should be attacking him anyway. In a 1v1 situtaion, its an overkill, but in RA you have teammates.Gorbachev116 18:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC) :::::Relyk did that happen to be on the jade arena? Cos the other week my whole team got perma-KD'ed for ages stepping onto the bridge there (and thus momentarily balling up into adjacent range) and took loads of damage from the Brambles that gimmick elementalist had set up :@. This skill fails in any competetive environment, but in RA, where you hardly expect to need to worry to much about the position of your team-mates, it can be way OP-- - (Talk/ ) 11:49, 14 April 2008 (EDT) ::::::Still bad to ball on it. Lord of all tyria 18:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC) Awsome when used correctly I often use this build in arenas and other areas of PvP with great success. I run with E/R and use a shocking shortbow. The skills are: Glyph of Concentration, Thunderclap, Sloth Hunter's Shot, Shell Shock, Body Shot, Apply Poison, Conjure Lightning, Res Sig Using this I was able to kill any opponent before my energy ran out. At one point I also made an HA build based off of this and when I ran this with a group that knew how to run it, we almost always got loads of fame. The build had 5 of the TC eles on enemies 4-8, a BiP with Blambles, an RC monk and a WoH/infuse. When I ran this in a group using vent, we were able to knocklock 5/8 of the opponents and quickly win. It was even funnier during relic runs when we shot up the enemy runner. 68.231.12.44 04:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC) update 1) Mursaat just got a lot more dangerous; 2) I hope this functions like Wastrel's Worry, otherwise even if you remove the hex before 3 seconds they are still Dazed; 3) "BHA for Casters" with a free Epidemic effect? Crazy. (T/ ) 02:14, 8 August 2008 (UTC) :Unlike BHA, this daze can't be maintained. Thunderclap with Silencing Spear, Shell Shock, and Chest Thumper. Owned. 02:17, 8 August 2008 (UTC) ::It's no longer a hex. Don't expect that to last long. --Macros 02:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC) :::...not a hex...o_O Even if it can't be completely maintained, the AoE and "skill" makes it worthwhile on a caster. (T/ ) 04:21, 8 August 2008 (UTC) ::::Glimmering Mark+Whirlwind Attack/Triple Chop/Cyclone Axe/Hundred Blades/Barrage, when I put 2 elites together I mean that there are 2 players involved obviously, so don't jump me BeeD 09:35, 8 August 2008 (UTC) :::::And now it looks frickin' sweet. Awesome purple lightning and stuff. 14:20, 8 August 2008 (UTC) I hate the update! I used to use shocking shortbow at melee range, thudnerclap, conjure lightning, glyph of ele power=perma knockdown on monk. I just tried it in RA today and saw it got changed,but Iv've never seen anyone use that build before. 18:10, 9 August 2008 (UTC) :There's always ''someone who hates an update, no matter how good it is... --Macros 21:14, 9 August 2008 (UTC) ::Freakin lol'd. But yeh, Mursaat Ele's are liek WHOAH nao. ...sooo much haet --'ilr' I've made a slideshow of the animation: here. If you havn't seen it yet, go go go. --- -- (s)talkpage 21:57, 9 August 2008 (UTC) :Every skill should get a new and cool animation when its functionality changes. Although tbh that wasn't hard for Thunderclap. :\ (T/ ) 02:32, 10 August 2008 (UTC) :: Nice update. Whilst I got a good laugh at the old gimmick version every so once in a while, this update will actually make the skill see use. And that animation is 1337. 17:23, 6 October 2008 (UTC) This skill is suddenly one of my favs. I like it with Winter's Embrace and a weapon swap to daggers. Ruins an enemy monk. Also, in PvE with DoTAoE you can keep entire groups of enemy casters from giving you trouble. --Marxist Hornet 24:41, 11 November 2008 update comparison So, which is better in terms of damage, (assuming the target won't remove hexes, or move), thunderclap or lightning surge? thunderclap does about 4/5ths of the damage that lightning surge does, but also has 25% armor penetration. then there is the longer recharge on thunderclap then lightning surge. also, the situation has to be taken into account. a monk has too low of armor for the penetration to cover the damage gap, but the dazed effect is superior to a knockdown here, where as a warrior will be greatly hampered from the armor penetration, even allowing thunderclap to deal more damage, but the daze is worthless next to a knockdown here. no, i don't really have an argument, just a question. Which is better? [[User:Uberxman1028|'Uberxman1028']] 08:35, 19 January 2009 (UTC) :Thunderclap, because Lightning Surge has been outdated for about three years. You also need to take the AoE into account, plus the fact that removal of Lightning Surge makes it totally harmless. (T/ ) 09:27, 19 January 2009 (UTC) ::while I totally agree with you entropy, there's one think you two apparently forgot: the Daze can be easily avoided by running away from wherever you are when you get hit by the damage. That's a minus for TC, but it's still better in most ways. Hitting 3 people with 1 thunderclap gives more dps than Lightning Surge (linked because I'm too lazy to search for it, and to help other lazy people ^.^ ).-- [[User:El_Nazgir|'El_Nazgir']] 10:45, 19 January 2009 (UTC) :::That is true, but H/H are terribad at running away from it. Against Mursaat Elementalists, this often leads to a fully dazed backline, and that sucks big ones. >.> Lightning Surge is ignorable in comparison. (T/ ) 11:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC) Pointless note? The note says "Although not stated, this skill deals Lightning damage." even though it does say in the description "Create a massive lightning strike..."-- 00:25, 18 March 2009 (UTC) :Maybe, but the usual format for skills like this would say XX...XX Lightning Damage. There are certain implications that it would cause lighting damage, such as it being in the air magic line and stating that it causes a massive lightning strike But this could be misleading (especially for users of consice descriptions) in that they may think it is intended to be untyped damage. Look at Crystal Wave It is an earth spell, but it causes untyped damage and is thus armor ignoring. This was done intentionally, so I think that the anomaly note on This page is warrented because it could mean that the damage is untyped, when in fact it is not. EDIT: I just looked at the normal and consice descriptions for this skill and noticed that the normal description would have me believe that the damage is AoE (...Lightning strike at target's location...), whereas the Consice description would imply that the damage only hits the target, and only the daze is AoE. Which is it? Perhaps a note clarifying? EDIT EDIT: Just tested; The damage is definately NOT AoE. Does everyone think this is ambiguous enough to warrent a note that clarifies it? Shadowshear 15:43, 26 May 2009 (UTC) Yeah I would put a note that it's not AoE. I got this skill thinking it was but nope...Mlandry 02:53, 8 June 2009 (UTC) Synergy Sure everyone's either figured it out by now, or it's at least common sense, but this synergises quite well with Gale for ensuring the Daze is applied without relying on another team mate or speccing into a Snare. Nice little assist Aeromancers can give the team beside zapping baddies. [[User:Hisoka_Kazemeijin|'Kaze']] 11:52, December 7, 2009 (UTC)